Contemporary London Flats

Air Police stuff, What injuries did they have, Story timeline, How popular was Biggles, Mount Street floor plan, etc.

Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 11 Sep 2018, 14:42

Patricia Wentworth's Dead or Alive (1936) mentions occupants of flats putting their shoes out for the janitor to clean, by prior arrangement.

This seems like a mutually beneficent arrangement: the janitor of a block of flats earns a little extra money and the gentlemen avoid getting their hands dirty. So, (1) did Biggles put his shoes out every night for the janitor to clean and (2) why is shoe cleaning a male job?
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby kylie_koyote » 11 Sep 2018, 15:35

I have seen this in fancy hotels. Sometimes there's even a little cloth bag to put them in.

A third benefit is that they don't track their dirt into the house, so Mrs. Symes has less to clean.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Fairblue » 11 Sep 2018, 16:41

I believe it was also the custom at some house parties for guests to put their shoes out for the boot boy to clean.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Tracer » 12 Sep 2018, 09:26

Yes, you are right. The sort of parties where your cases are unpacked and your clothes laid out for you as well. :hellochap:
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 12 Sep 2018, 11:14

As a small child, I used to get extra spending money by cleaning the family's shoes on a very occasional basis. I think the going rate was 2p a pair. Shoe polishing was also one of the bob_a_jobs you could expect to be given.

Bob-a-job, a now discontinued practice, was a week each year when scouts (and guides) knocked on the doors of neighbours and strangers and offered to do small jobs for the householders in return for a donation to Scout Funds. Cleaning cars and polishing shoes were frequently met examples.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 12 Sep 2018, 15:59

I wonder what actual furniture Biggles would have chosen for his flat in the 1930s and if he ever changed it over the years. A lot would depend on when he first moved in which must have been sometime in the late 1920s/early 1930s. 1936 would be about the very latest at the time of & Co. By that time modern furniture was in the Art Deco style while a lot of people would have had the older style large brown items of furniture mahogany desks, dining tables and chairs and a large mahogany bookcase. We know Biggles had a dining table, desk, bookcase and some small occasional tables as well as "fireside" chairs. I always picture the room as having fairly "well worn" old fashioned furniture looking cosy with the coal fire and hearth rug but it could have easily been modern and angular in the Art Deco style. Biggles might have had a lot of memorabilia from the First World War and plenty of items relating to aviation. Certainly there would have been quite a few books and magazines scattered about and I think he always bought a newspaper when he was at home.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 12 Sep 2018, 16:19

I am now trying to imagine what Biggles' flat would have looked like furnished in the modern style from the "Swinging Sixties". WEJ was still writing the books during that period. There was often a theme of drug taking and drug addicts in the Air Police books which of course was prevalent at the time.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 12 Sep 2018, 16:38

You can see examples of 20th century living rooms here, Frecks. https://www.geffrye-museum.org.uk/colle ... ms/page-1/
This is one of my favourite museums and is currently closed for re-development.


I wonder what actual furniture Biggles would have chosen for his flat in the 1930s and if he ever changed it over the years.


That was why I set up this thread. As WEJ didn't describe how Biggles's flat looked, I'm seeing how other authors of the same period described the flats their characters lived in. I've gone for the inter-war period and similar middle class /upper class protagonists.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 12 Sep 2018, 17:05

There does seem to have been a very wide variety of furnishings styles during the inter war period and Biggles could have chosen any one of them. I would love to know which style he would have preferred. There are very few clues in the books. I think he would have wanted to be comfortable rather than fashionable.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Fairblue » 12 Sep 2018, 17:50

Frecks wrote:...... I think he would have wanted to be comfortable rather than fashionable.

I agree, Frecks. Comfort before fashion.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 12 Sep 2018, 18:17

I agree, too. But I add that Biggles, although unconventional in his thought processes, is not at all unconventional in his behaviour, so I would expect his flat to be furnished both comfortably and appropriately to his position in life.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 12 Sep 2018, 18:42

Yes I agree with you there Kismet. Of course over time some items of furniture would wear out - possibly not any solid mahogany furniture but the chairs, carpets and curtains would probably need replacing. A lot of soft furnishing could be very plain and masculine. I think they did have loose cushions on their chairs because they were mentioned in one of the early books. The ornaments etc. would probably change after WW2 - certainly Biggles and the team would collect souvenirs of their various adventures and they might have displayed them in the living room. The 1960s was a strange decade because there were a lot of modern new ideas but some very traditional ones too. My parents bedroom suite in particular was very old fashioned - probably pre War but I loved it.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby kylie_koyote » 12 Sep 2018, 18:47

They did have loose cushions. Algy chucks one at Biggles and nearly knocks over Ginger's paste-pot at the start of Air Commodore.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 12 Sep 2018, 19:00

Green silk with gold tassels? Embroidered urns of flowers hand stitched by Algy's relatives? Pale linen in a contrasting colour to the settee? I'd love to know these details.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 12 Sep 2018, 19:08

Me too. Would the cushions match the curtains? Did they have blinds at the windows? I imagine they were fireside chairs in the living room. Would they have been leather or material, plain or patterned? The list is really quite endless and we have no clues from the books. The only thing we do know is that they had a dining table in the living room where they had tea and laid out the atlas and maps etc. There is also that mention of a breakfast room in an early book - I think that was Africa. There are also the bedrooms to consider and the bathroom. The toilet would have had a high level cistern with a chain and probably a big enamel bath and quite a large sink. Would the bathroom suite be white or an old fashioned Victorian style with flowers? The toilet seat could well have been mahogany and possibly the side bath panel.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 12 Sep 2018, 20:48

I hadn't considered patterned porcelain. I think that as the flats in Mount St were built as flats then cheaper, plain porcelain was probably installed which would be acceptable to the majority of tenants. Obviously, it would be more fun if they had to apologise about the pattern everytime a guest went to the bathroom.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Tracer » 13 Sep 2018, 10:19

There are quite a few of us here who remember the '60s well, and for most of us new furniture was impossibly expensive. We were only just out of the privations of wartime, and certainly where I lived, Government "utility" furniture was the norm, and fashionable just something you read about. "Utility" was solid, functional and not offensive to look at. I still have a "utility" chest of drawers.

Perhaps the flats came furnished, perhaps Biggles brought furniture from the family home. I doubt any of them would have considered furnishings a priority.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 13 Sep 2018, 13:19

Not a priority from a style point of view but I am sure Biggles would want to be comfortable with everything he needed to hand.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Fairblue » 13 Sep 2018, 14:39

It's quite possible Dickpa's Brendenhall provided a few sticks.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 13 Sep 2018, 16:09

I should think everything in Dickpa's house would be very old fashioned and quite scruffy. Dickpa hardly spent any time at home and I doubt whether he would be interested in furniture and soft furnishings. There would probably be quite a bit of good Victorian furniture in the house though even if it was not in very good condition. I wonder if Algy had any furniture to bring to the flat or if he had lived in furnished rooms before he moved into Mount Street. There is also the question of Bertie - he must have had a great deal of furniture in his original home but I doubt if much of that would fit into a flat. The possibilities here are really endless. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that Ginger brought absolutely nothing except the clothes he stood up in which Biggles and Algy had bought for him - his flying cap and goggles being firm favourites :lol:
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 13 Sep 2018, 17:46

Now, I've always imagined Brendenhall Manor as having much older furniture than Victorian. In my mind's eye, it has been furnished with a hodge podge of furniture since Elizabethan times, things being added or replaced as they wore out or fashion changed. I'm not sure how scruffy it would be, as Dickpa did have a small staff until Cruise of the Condor so the neglect would be quite recent.

Also, while not trying to argue that Dickpa was at all interested in soft furnishings, he was very wealthy and so in a financial position to buy what he wanted. There was a silver statuette that Biggles picked up to use as a weapon, and they had gone to visit to see Dickpa's collections of curios from his trips at the start of Cruise of the Condor. I would expect a wealthy collector to make sure that his collection was kept safe whilst he was elsewhere which implies a certain amount of staffing, cleaning, care and storage decisions.

I think some of the original furnishings of the Mount St flat would depend on exactly when Biggles moved into it. If he moved in after he had made a certain amount of money, then he might have chosen to buy new, good quality furnishings. If the Mount St flat was his original, location-unspecified rooms, then he was poorer and might have appealed to relatives for bits and bobs or taken them furnished or bought cheaply from an auction or second hand shop. Mount St, in the 1920s and 30s, was an address in the right part of town, but old fashioned. The flats had been built in the 1880s and so were out of date. Biggles didn't choose to live in a slap bang up to date block of flats with a trendy address. He chose to live in a 40 year old flat which would have been much cheaper.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 13 Sep 2018, 19:14

That is very interesting Kismet. I had not realised how wealthy Dickpa was - it is a long time since I read Cruise of The Condor and the décor was not mentioned very much in Hits The Trail.

I did not know the Mount Street flat was built in the 1880s - mid to late Victorian so probably no internal bathrooms in each flat at that time but they definitely had a bathroom in Africa. What did people do in flats before they had running water to each dwelling? In Country Houses they had maids running up and downstairs with jugs of water and washstands in the guest bedrooms with bowls for the water.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Indian Civil Service » 14 Sep 2018, 17:53

Frecks wrote:Me too. Would the cushions match the curtains? Did they have blinds at the windows? I imagine they were fireside chairs in the living room. Would they have been leather or material, plain or patterned? The list is really quite endless and we have no clues from the books. The only thing we do know is that they had a dining table in the living room where they had tea and laid out the atlas and maps etc. There is also that mention of a breakfast room in an early book - I think that was Africa. There are also the bedrooms to consider and the bathroom. The toilet would have had a high level cistern with a chain and probably a big enamel bath and quite a large sink. Would the bathroom suite be white or an old fashioned Victorian style with flowers? The toilet seat could well have been mahogany and possibly the side bath panel.


I think they do peer over or through blinds at the window in a couple of books. Would the breakfast room have been adapted as a bedroom when Bertie moved in?

I do think it would have some luxury touches...In Looks Back ending it says Biggles displays the red glass goblet he bought in Rodnitz..It must have had a special case or stand to protect it from flying cushions...
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby kylie_koyote » 14 Sep 2018, 18:22

I'm under the belief that they always had four bedrooms - Dick Denver stays with them for a couple of weeks at the start of Flies West. Perhaps it was used as an office or a catch-all room when they didn't need it.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Indian Civil Service » 15 Sep 2018, 00:46

True. Eddie Ross also stays wirh them for several days in Poor Rich Boy, and Biggles invites Boris and Charles to stay in Takes Charge.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 15 Sep 2018, 01:04

I don't know what the conventions were re having someone to stay if there wasn't a spare room in upper middle class interwar bachelor society. If it was a casual sleep over (gone home together following a night out) then perhaps the guest would sleep on the sofa. If it was a pre-arranged visit, then perhaps the host would give up his bed and sleep on a campbed either in the same room or a flatmate's? Or perhaps the guest would have the camp bed? Or the sofa? I haven't found any definitive references. I do know that same sex siblings of poorer families slept in one bed, and that middle class men were very accustomed to sleeping in dormitories at school and at times in the armed forces.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2018, 08:03

That is a very interesting point. I do not think they had a sofa in the living room as WEJ only mentioned fireside chairs. I suppose at a pinch two of the team could have slept in the same bed if it was bigger than a normal single. I should think if anyone actually gave up their bed it would be Ginger as the junior member of the team. They might have had a sleeping bag or some such for someone to sleep on the floor. If they did have four bedrooms it would make a very large flat. I am not sure if any flats actually have four bedrooms plus a breakfast room. It would be bigger than the average house.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Kismet » 15 Sep 2018, 12:48

Frecks wrote:That is very interesting Kismet. I had not realised how wealthy Dickpa was - it is a long time since I read Cruise of The Condor and the décor was not mentioned very much in Hits The Trail.

I did not know the Mount Street flat was built in the 1880s - mid to late Victorian so probably no internal bathrooms in each flat at that time but they definitely had a bathroom in Africa. What did people do in flats before they had running water to each dwelling? In Country Houses they had maids running up and downstairs with jugs of water and washstands in the guest bedrooms with bowls for the water.


https://www.british-history.ac.uk/surve ... /pp321-326

This is rather a dull document, but it goes through every house on Mount St, saying what the plot used to be, when it was re-developed, who the architects were etc.
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby kylie_koyote » 15 Sep 2018, 13:28

My in-law’s flat in Madrid used to have Murphy beds that folded down from the wall for guests.

They upgraded to a regular double bed at some point before I met Mr KK, so I’ve never seen them myself.

But with all the engineers “in the family” Biggles could have had something designed and built that would accommodate everyone. Lofts perhaps?
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Re: Contemporary London Flats

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2018, 14:45

I think the most likely explanation in that Ginger would have put a sleeping bag on the floor in either Biggles or Algy's room or possibly they had a spare bed in the largest bedroom. They always seem quite happy to share a room with two single beds or even sleep in the same hut on camp beds. There were also occasions when they slept together in tents or out in the open. I do not think having a bedroom each would have been a priority although I do not recall them ever actually sleeping in the same bed. Does anyone remember Morecambe and Wise sitting up in bed together on their TV shows?
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