Biggles & Co

Discuss a Biggles book!

Biggles & Co

Postby Fairblue » 29 Jan 2014, 21:17

I have just finished this book and towards the end Cronfelt attempts to bribe Biggles to fly to France and land in a place where there would be no customs. Biggles says:

'My price, when I break the law, will be more than you will be prepared to pay.' So, as we all know Biggles will not be bribed. I feel there is a subtle message in those words but I can think of only one instance where he would break the law. - to save his comrades. Any one else have any ideas?
The Decision to Survive - A good pilot is both born and made. The best would look upon his work as a combination of adventure and a serious mission. – Major General Sir Frederick Sykes
User avatar
Fairblue
Air marshal
Air marshal
 
Posts: 29561
Images: 119
Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 11:05
Location: Up North
Reading now: War in a Stringbag - Charles Lamb
Reading next: Depends on my mood
My top chap: Bertie - who else?
Starsign: Leo
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Kismet » 29 Jan 2014, 21:40

He differentiates between what he feels is morally right and what is lawful, so he might break the law for what he perceives as the greater good.

I like the use of the word 'when'. It suggests something that is definitely going to happen or has happened.
'Major Bigglesworth' said Von Stalhein coldly, 'there are times when I seriously wonder if you were created by the devil just to annoy me.'
User avatar
Kismet
Air vice marshal
Air vice marshal
 
Posts: 26020
Images: 118
Joined: 28 Aug 2013, 21:10
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Reading last: fantasy on Kindle Unlimited
Reading now: Patricia Wentworth
My top chap: Biggles
Starsign: Capricorn

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby kylie_koyote » 29 Jan 2014, 21:45

I think Biggles would break the law if he feels the law is unjust (anti Jewish laws in Germany for example) or to save his friends.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Purple Pigeon » 30 Jan 2014, 10:07

He tries to blame a death in Hits the Trail on gypsies. Not only iwas that a waste of police time, it was also extremely unfair to the gypsies.

Apart from that he generally breaks the law if it helps him succeed in his mission - but not always when lives are at stake.

He's broken into hotel rooms and buildings.

He's quite willing to steal transport/ponies/food in order to fulfill a mission. I feel sorry for some of those civilians and peasants who have lost property at Biggles' hands.

Depending on how old Ginger is in some of the early books he is probably abetting him in breaking all sorts of flying regulations (you couldn't fly for reward or hire unless you had your B licence and you had to be over 18 for that).
Purple Pigeon
Flying officer
Flying officer
 
Posts: 301
Joined: 26 Apr 2013, 09:50

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Inactive User 149 » 30 Jan 2014, 10:42

I do not think Ginger did much actual flying in the early books - he might take off and land somewhere else in an emergency but not much more.
Inactive User 149
-
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Spitfire666 » 30 Jan 2014, 10:56

Purple Pigeon wrote: He's quite willing to steal transport/ponies/food in order to fulfill a mission. I feel sorry for some of those civilians and peasants who have lost property at Biggles' hands.

To say nothing of bicycles, motorcars and cars and 'planes... :lol:
If there's one thing certain in this uncertain world it is that Algy won't go home without us.

http://wejas.org.uk
User avatar
Spitfire666
Site Orderly
Site Orderly
 
Posts: 3192
Images: 37
Joined: 18 Apr 2013, 12:45
Location: London

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Inactive User 149 » 30 Jan 2014, 10:58

Yes Biggles was a thief :o
Inactive User 149
-
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Kismet » 30 Jan 2014, 12:10

How about what he did in the Rescue Flight? Underage boys who hadn't even joined up!
'Major Bigglesworth' said Von Stalhein coldly, 'there are times when I seriously wonder if you were created by the devil just to annoy me.'
User avatar
Kismet
Air vice marshal
Air vice marshal
 
Posts: 26020
Images: 118
Joined: 28 Aug 2013, 21:10
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Reading last: fantasy on Kindle Unlimited
Reading now: Patricia Wentworth
My top chap: Biggles
Starsign: Capricorn

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby kylie_koyote » 30 Jan 2014, 12:12

Kismet wrote:How about what he did in the Rescue Flight? Underage boys who hadn't even joined up!


How about enlisting under false pretenses himself? Impersonating a senior officer?
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Purple Pigeon » 30 Jan 2014, 13:05

Jenny Rob wrote:I do not think Ginger did much actual flying in the early books - he might take off and land somewhere else in an emergency but not much more.


In Biggles and Co he makes a delivery to France while Biggles is being a decoy.

He is about to fly the plane in Flies West when the storm is approaching.

He does some of the flying in Charter Pilot (they all take a turn looking for the locusts).

There are other times too, although they are genuine emergencies or when Ginger is part of an armed force.
Purple Pigeon
Flying officer
Flying officer
 
Posts: 301
Joined: 26 Apr 2013, 09:50

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Inactive User 149 » 30 Jan 2014, 13:11

Well in Biggles & Co. Biggles does say to keep it quiet as his bosses would think he was mad entrusting the load to Ginger! Not very flattering! Ginger also "borrows" Stella's plane and flies it abroad without permission! I do think we need to remember that these are only stories and it all makes good reading :)
Inactive User 149
-
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Fairblue » 30 Jan 2014, 14:40

[quote="Jenny Rob"]Well in Biggles & Co. Biggles does say to keep it quiet as his bosses would think he was mad entrusting the load to Ginger! Not very flattering! [quote]
Ginger have been no more than 18 at the time and I think that is what Biggles was referring to! And , quite frankly, he'd be right, under normal circumstances. :D
The Decision to Survive - A good pilot is both born and made. The best would look upon his work as a combination of adventure and a serious mission. – Major General Sir Frederick Sykes
User avatar
Fairblue
Air marshal
Air marshal
 
Posts: 29561
Images: 119
Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 11:05
Location: Up North
Reading now: War in a Stringbag - Charles Lamb
Reading next: Depends on my mood
My top chap: Bertie - who else?
Starsign: Leo
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co

Postby Inactive User 149 » 30 Jan 2014, 14:42

Ginger had never flown abroad solo or followed a compass course. He was not sure he could find Paris and Biggles was not convinced either - also Ginger was working class and the gold dealers were very upper class and very wealthy - they would not want their bullion carried by a miner's son :shock:
Inactive User 149
-
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Biggles & Co.

Postby kylie_koyote » 27 May 2014, 18:40

At the beginning, Biggles is flying over Brooklands when Cronfelt comes to visit him.

Then, in Chapter Two, he tells Cronfelt and Carstairs "We've registered as a private company with a hangar of our own at Hardwick Airport."

I looked this up online and found RAF Hardwick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Hardwick), but it is all the way up by Norwich, which GoogleMaps tells me is 120 miles from London. That seems rather far to be running back and forth, especially considering Biggles makes the trip to see Raymond on the spur of the moment in Chapter Three and it's 8:30am when Raymond phones him and Biggles says he'll be there by 9:30.

Is there another "Hardwick Airport" that would have been used, or is this a fictional airport created for the story? I don't understand why WEJ would need to create a fictional one when he could've just as easily made it at Brooklands, since that is where they were at the start.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 27 May 2014, 20:58

Just a 'paper address' to appear legit? They could have flown from anywhere.
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby kylie_koyote » 27 May 2014, 21:49

No, they're definitely at Hardwick (wherever it is) because it says:

"It was dusk when the Cormorant glided down on the aerodrome at Hardwick, and as he taxied in Biggles was surprised to see a neat black and white three-seater Falcon standing outside the hangar." [This being Stella Carstairs, visiting them.]

Wherever it was, it is close enough for there to be regular motor coach service to wherever Stella lives.

Then at the end, Chapter 12 is called "Hardwick Again" and they land in Stella's "borrowed" Falcon after escaping from Germany. It only takes Raymond and Sir Guy Brunswick 45 minutes to get there from London when summoned by Biggles.

I have to admit, my brain glossed over this the first dozen times I read this book and if you'd asked me yesterday, I would have said that "& Co." took place at Brooklands - as it starts there.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 27 May 2014, 22:30

Isn't that just the way with these books though, every time you read them something else pops out.

Well Heston, where she was keeping the Falcon was an airfield until the early 50's. 73 miles from Hardwick 1½ hrs by car, lot less by air.
I'll have to go read it in the bath now I've read the bit where Biggles 'grinds his teeth in mortification' at crashing an aircraft.
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby kylie_koyote » 27 May 2014, 22:40

Tommy Smith wrote: now I've read the bit where Biggles 'grinds his teeth in mortification' at crashing an aircraft.


Lol I think that's just 'cause WEJ won't let him curse.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Kismet » 27 May 2014, 22:43

Well, if they were that far away then it explains why they made up bedrooms in the hanger at Hardwick.

Stella also says:

'..I've seen you several times.......at Heston and Hanworth. I think I saw you once at Brooklands.'

So Biggles must be familiar with, and perhaps a regular visitor at Heston and Hanworth.
'Major Bigglesworth' said Von Stalhein coldly, 'there are times when I seriously wonder if you were created by the devil just to annoy me.'
User avatar
Kismet
Air vice marshal
Air vice marshal
 
Posts: 26020
Images: 118
Joined: 28 Aug 2013, 21:10
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Reading last: fantasy on Kindle Unlimited
Reading now: Patricia Wentworth
My top chap: Biggles
Starsign: Capricorn

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 28 May 2014, 07:30

The bit that sticks out for me is...
"No one must see the machine on the ground so no one must be allowed in the hanger, the door must be kept locked at all times unless we are moving machines in and out" then goes on about how vital it is to keep people away, Croydon and Brooklands and any field of that type would have been heaving with people. Not only that but they had a gunned up Bulldog Fighter to slip in and out without hoardes of plane spotters getting overexcited.

Here's the interesting bit. I can only find mentions of it being built as a military base, so thought greater security... 'Hardwick Airfield was one of the early heavy bomber airfields which were constructed for the RAF during 1941-42'... but the book was published 1936.

Hanworth! Another London airfield. It really was all going on at that time. Sigh.

Hmm, Accident log 18th July 1923 Avro 504K D8843 RAFC Hardwick Engine stalled and spun in. Wonder if it was a field Johns knew.
Last edited by Tommy Smith on 28 May 2014, 09:11, edited 1 time in total.
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Inactive User 171 » 28 May 2014, 07:53

I do wish WEJ had given a little more thought to these things when he wrote them. It would have been better to make up the name of an airfield which did not exist rather than use one in the wrong location. How long did it take Biggles to drive backwards and forwards to the London office to pick up his instructions etc.? This is another situation like the Cramlington/Newcastle/Ginger coming from Yorkshire scenario in Black Peril.
Inactive User 171
-
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 28 May 2014, 11:38

Another thing in Biggles and Co. Biggles has just had a call in perfect English from "a friend, an admirer".

That's not who I think it might be, is it?
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Inactive User 171 » 28 May 2014, 15:52

N o it is definitely a man :lol:
Inactive User 171
-
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 28 May 2014, 16:35

von S?
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby kylie_koyote » 28 May 2014, 16:38

Tommy Smith wrote:von S?

Indeed.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
"OK baby - sorry - I mean, righto."
"That's better."
User avatar
kylie_koyote
Air commodore
Air commodore
 
Posts: 12116
Images: 475
Joined: 06 Dec 2013, 19:32
Location: Northeast USA
Reading last: Tumult in the Clouds
Reading now: Time & Chance
Reading next: so many choices...
My top chap: Ginger
Aircraft: Spitfire

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 28 May 2014, 16:42

Er, isn't that a bit, um...
Friend? Admirer?
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Kismet » 28 May 2014, 17:01

It's traditionally what the makers of anonymous phone calls in thrillers say. They are a friend, an admirer, they would hate to see you hurt, they have your best interests at heart....and if you just turn down this nasty, dangerous, pointless little proposition things wil be so much better for you.
'Major Bigglesworth' said Von Stalhein coldly, 'there are times when I seriously wonder if you were created by the devil just to annoy me.'
User avatar
Kismet
Air vice marshal
Air vice marshal
 
Posts: 26020
Images: 118
Joined: 28 Aug 2013, 21:10
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Reading last: fantasy on Kindle Unlimited
Reading now: Patricia Wentworth
My top chap: Biggles
Starsign: Capricorn

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Tommy Smith » 28 May 2014, 17:06

Must stop taking things literally...
"Spare my days! Who wants to be true to life? Why read about what you can see going on around you any day of the week?"
Tommy Smith
Wing commander
Wing commander
 
Posts: 3708
Images: 96
Joined: 23 Apr 2013, 07:56

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Inactive User 171 » 29 May 2014, 10:07

I think EVS wanted to warn Biggles off because he suspected he would get to the bottom of his plot very easily - as in fact he did. EVS did always admire Biggles quite literally and he appreciated Algy's qualities too - not sure about Ginger though.
Inactive User 171
-
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: 01 Jul 2014, 18:27

Re: Biggles & Co.

Postby Fairblue » 29 May 2014, 10:25

Jenny wrote:I think EVS wanted to warn Biggles off because he suspected he would get to the bottom of his plot very easily - as in fact he did. EVS did always admire Biggles quite literally and he appreciated Algy's qualities too - not sure about Ginger though.

I imagine EVS found Ginger very frustrating. Being on Biggles team he was a force to be reckoned with, youngster or not.
The Decision to Survive - A good pilot is both born and made. The best would look upon his work as a combination of adventure and a serious mission. – Major General Sir Frederick Sykes
User avatar
Fairblue
Air marshal
Air marshal
 
Posts: 29561
Images: 119
Joined: 21 Apr 2013, 11:05
Location: Up North
Reading now: War in a Stringbag - Charles Lamb
Reading next: Depends on my mood
My top chap: Bertie - who else?
Starsign: Leo
Aircraft: Spitfire

Next

Return to WEJ Biggles books - individual books

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron