Ginger and Jeanette

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Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 12:52

Thinking about this a bit more I think Ginger would have behaved very well with Jeanette, she was a very shy demure girl but she seems to like him well enough. I do not think Henri and Mrs. Ducoste would mind about the friendship too much after all Ginger did make that very daring rescue even though he was wounded himself and Henri was very impressed with him. I think during that week Mrs. Ducoste would have spent most of the time at Henri's bedside in the hospital.

As far as Full Moon is concerned she was a much more affectionate girl - she put her hand in Ginger's very early on in the book but I think her affection was more a childish friendship than anything else and as we have said elsewhere Sandy would have kept a close eye on the situation.

Ginger was very self confident in a lot of ways when he was young but he was very easily abashed when Biggles told him off.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Kismet » 10 Jan 2014, 13:46

How romantic would Ginger feel towards a girl who spent all day showing how much better she was at swimming, diving etc than him? I expect it amused Full Moon considerably to show off her superior skills and to teach Ginger how to do these things better.Teenage hormones are ever present, putting ideas into teenage minds, but I think Ginger was young enough just to ignore any uncomfortable undercurrents and concentrate on the friendship.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 13:53

Yes I agree with that. Ginger does not seem to mind that Full Moon can swim and dive better than he can and she certainly saved his life on more than one occasion. He follows her lead for a long time and then at the end he tries to protect her. I love it when they are in the grotto at the end and he tries to protect her from the falling debris with his own body. I do not think he was feeling at all romantic at that moment ;)
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Kismet » 10 Jan 2014, 14:05

I think that Ginger has a very strong protective instinct and likes the occasions when he can do the protecting. He might have felt quite gallant in the grotto, finally being able to do something better than Full Moon and to protect her as a man should protect a woman!
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 14:12

I always wanted Ginger to have a proper girlfriend. When I read "South Seas" for the first time, and I got to the bit about Full Moon holding his hand, I was encouraged, but then that's all that happens. Poor kid.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 14:17

Yes I think Ginger would be a lovely boyfriend. He is so kind and caring and I always used to think you could tell him if you were scared or worried about anything as he so readily admits to being scared himself. I do not think he would be judgemental if you could not cope whereas I think Biggles would just tell anyone to pull themselves together.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Tracer » 10 Jan 2014, 14:37

Argh, someone has already posted what I just put - I'm a bit slow today - sorry :roll:
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Tommy Smith » 10 Jan 2014, 14:57

Jenny Rob wrote:Yes I think Ginger would be a lovely boyfriend. He is so kind and caring and I always used to think you could tell him if you were scared or worried about anything as he so readily admits to being scared himself. I do not think he would be judgemental if you could not cope whereas I think Biggles would just tell anyone to pull themselves together.

and von stalhein would just shoot them.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 15:02

Jenny Rob wrote:Yes I think Ginger would be a lovely boyfriend. He is so kind and caring and I always used to think you could tell him if you were scared or worried about anything as he so readily admits to being scared himself. I do not think he would be judgemental if you could not cope whereas I think Biggles would just tell anyone to pull themselves together.


One of the rare moments where Biggles is impressed by a woman is in "Takes a Holiday" where Tom's wife dispatches a tarantula and Biggles says "You're a lucky man" or something like that. I imagine Biggles would have no use whatsoever with a shrinking-violet-type of woman.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Tommy Smith » 10 Jan 2014, 20:42

I'm not so sure. I can see him getting all protective over some demure pretty little thing that needs aid.

Especially if she's blonde.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Spitfire666 » 10 Jan 2014, 20:55

Jenny Rob wrote:I do not think he would be judgemental if you could not cope whereas I think Biggles would just tell anyone to pull themselves together.

Biggles did become more sympathetic with time. He was tougher with weaklings in WW1, but was more understanding in WW2.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Tracer » 11 Jan 2014, 11:21

I thought WEJ did a very good job with Biggles' character from teenage fighter pilot with all the extremes of being that age, to the hardened character after WW2 who knows that it just ain't the way you're led to believe.

Even though he was constrained at times by what the publishers wanted. You can see the gentle propaganda exercises in some of the text, also the results of when he was told to write to suit a younger readership. But he seemed to be a cunning old fox and some sentences you definitely think slipped past a po-faced publisher to make the reader catch a wink from the writer. I like to think so anyway.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Spitfire666 » 11 Jan 2014, 16:34

Tracer wrote:I thought WEJ did a very good job with Biggles' character from teenage fighter pilot with all the extremes of being that age, to the hardened character after WW2 who knows that it just ain't the way you're led to believe.

Even though he was constrained at times by what the publishers wanted. You can see the gentle propaganda exercises in some of the text, also the results of when he was told to write to suit a younger readership. But he seemed to be a cunning old fox and some sentences you definitely think slipped past a po-faced publisher to make the reader catch a wink from the writer. I like to think so anyway.

I agree with you, Tracer. I got to know Biggles first in the WW2 stories, and was confused at first on meeting up with the young Camel pilot. Now, I think Johns did a brilliant job, showing Biggles slowly developing a shell over the years. I do think it important to read the WW1 stories, because then you realize what is going on underneath the shell.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 28 Jan 2014, 11:11

Everyone teases Ginger abut Jeanette but he calls it a "platonic friendship" which means it is not of a romantic nature - shame ;)
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Purple Pigeon » 28 Jan 2014, 11:42

Only Bertie and Algy tease Ginger (in fact in some ways Algy is a bit nasty about it). Biggles has no problems with it.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 28 Jan 2014, 11:51

Yes I have always been surprised that Biggles is quite happy with Ginger and Jeanette - in fact he is very kind when Ginger is upset about Jeanette and her mother being in danger. Bertie is also kind to Jeanette and her mother.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Kismet » 28 Jan 2014, 11:58

Jenny Rob wrote:Yes I have always been surprised that Biggles is quite happy with Ginger and Jeanette - in fact he is very kind when Ginger is upset about Jeanette and her mother being in danger. Bertie is also kind to Jeanette and her mother.


I think Biggles is a bit distracted: he's injured, he's got a very distracting Princess on his hands, he's pleased to see the others and maybe he believes Ginger when he says it's platonic,
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Fairblue » 28 Jan 2014, 12:19

Or maybe Biggles thinks that it's wartime and Ginger deserves a little bit of 'normalness'. Had it interfered with the mission he would no doubt have stepped in, but that didn't occur. Biggles may have thought that nothing would come of it so let the lad have a good time while be can.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby kylie_koyote » 28 Jan 2014, 14:36

Jenny Rob wrote:Everyone teases Ginger about Jeanette but he calls it a "platonic friendship" which means it is not of a romantic nature - shame ;)


I think this is just Ginger trying to get Algy and Bertie to stop teasing him. He's saying "nothing has happened [yet] so leave me alone", whereas he clearly feels romantic attachment to Jeanette when he says "Not all the Axis armies could keep me from you" when he kisses her on the forehead. That's not something you'd say to a girl who was "just a friend".
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Fairblue » 28 Jan 2014, 14:45

kylie_koyote wrote:
Jenny Rob wrote:Everyone teases Ginger about Jeanette but he calls it a "platonic friendship" which means it is not of a romantic nature - shame ;)


I think this is just Ginger trying to get Algy and Bertie to stop teasing him. He's saying "nothing has happened [yet] so leave me alone", whereas he clearly feels romantic attachment to Jeanette when he says "Not all the Axis armies could keep me from you" when he kisses her on the forehead. That's not something you'd say to a girl who was "just a friend".

Ginger's not going to admit a ''love interest' (for want of a better expression) is he? Can't say I blame him!
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby kylie_koyote » 28 Jan 2014, 14:48

I can't blame him either, not with Algy and Bertie taking the mickey out of him constantly.

His responses are priceless and one of the rare moments when Ginger is intentionally rude to one of his friends. I love the very last scene when he says "Oh, go polish your eyeglass, troubadour!"
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 30 Jan 2014, 10:31

So do I! I do not think Ginger would be very forward in a "romantic" sense with a shy young girl.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby RAAF Spitfire Girl » 06 Feb 2014, 11:07

Soitfire666 wrote:I got to know Biggles first in the WW2 stories, and was confused at first on meeting up with the young Camel pilot. Now, I think Johns did a brilliant job, showing Biggles slowly developing a shell over the years. I do think it important to read the WW1 stories, because then you realize what is going on underneath the shell.

My experience, too, S666. There was such a big difference between Biggles' character in WWI and WWII and I agree that wej has done an excellent job of showing how Biggles matured, accepted responsibility, grew that protective shell etc, but underneath all that you know he feels things very deeply. I know I've said it before, but that insight we are given in Delivers the Goods when Biggles is reflecting on the possibility of either Algy or Ginger being killed in action, is intensely moving and insightful. He cared deeply for both his friends.

Fairblue wrote:Or maybe Biggles thinks that it's wartime and Ginger deserves a little bit of 'normalness'. Had it interfered with the mission he would no doubt have stepped in, but that didn't occur. Biggles may have thought that nothing would come of it so let the lad have a good time while be can.

I tend to agree with your perspective, FB. If he saw no harm in the relationship, he would have been happy for Ginger to find a bit of happiness during the uncertainty of war.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 06 Feb 2014, 11:12

I love the bit in Delivers the Goods when Biggles is thinking about Algy and Ginger and as soon as Ginger comes back he tells him off :) It also says that he is not prepared to let the others know how he feels about Algy but surely this does not include Ginger - he would be very well aware of how Biggles feels and Ginger himself has no hesitation in letting Biggles know how he feels "What are we going to do" he asks Biggles "desperately" when he realises what has happened. Ginger's feelings are never very far from the surface.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Fairblue » 06 Feb 2014, 11:59

Jenny Rob wrote:I love the bit in Delivers the Goods when Biggles is thinking about Algy and Ginger and as soon as Ginger comes back he tells him off :) It also says that he is not prepared to let the others know how he feels about Algy but surely this does not include Ginger - he would be very well aware of how Biggles feels and Ginger himself has no hesitation in letting Biggles know how he feels "What are we going to do" he asks Biggles "desperately" when he realises what has happened. Ginger's feelings are never very far from the surface.

If was not 'done' for a man to talk about his deepest feelings, even to his best friends. Ginger is young and possibly hasn't yet learnt to hide his emotions. But neither Biggles nor Algy would have discussed such things - it was simply taken as read.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 06 Feb 2014, 12:18

Of course the trouble with things being "taken as read" in a book is that a young reader would not understand unless things are written down - as in Delivers the Goods when Biggles is thinking so we know how much he cares. Ginger is also very upfront about being scared which always surprises me, why would he admit to his hero that he is frightened? Biggles gets really angry with him in Secret Agent when he is scared of ghosts :lol:
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby SaintedAunt » 06 Feb 2014, 13:55

Fairblue wrote:If was not 'done' for a man to talk about his deepest feelings, even to his best friends. Ginger is young and possibly hasn't yet learnt to hide his emotions. But neither Biggles nor Algy would have discussed such things - it was simply taken as read.

Yes. Biggles and Algy gripped each others hands (Flies East) and WEJ says it was the only time in the whole war that they allowed their real feelings to get uppermost.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 06 Feb 2014, 14:00

That was a very moving moment but I do think young readers need a bit more than one show of emotion in the whole war! Of course WEJ was good at writing about the way the characters feel from time to time so that we know when they are upset - Algy in Black Peril for instance when he cannot find Biggles. How grateful he must have been to Ginger for getting in touch with him or he would never have known what had happened to his best friend :cryblue:
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Kismet » 06 Feb 2014, 16:35

I like the understated emotion mainly expressed in adverbs. I just think 'Get on with it' when there is too much emotion in books.

"'Algy' he yelled hysterically. 'Algy' " is as good as it gets.
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Re: Ginger and Jeanette

Postby Inactive User 149 » 06 Feb 2014, 16:42

When did he yell "Algy" hysterically?
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