Ginger's reading

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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Tommy Smith » 05 Jan 2014, 12:39

Dakotas :) and good advice. I had a ten minute smile on my face watching that.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Kismet » 05 Jan 2014, 15:29

Purple Pigeon wrote:His spelling must have been OK by Air Commodore, or he'd never have been allowed to be the wireless operator.


And the notes he writes in 'and the Noble Lord' are fine.

Either the note in the Black Peril is an aberration, or Biggles arranged a tutor.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Spitfire666 » 05 Jan 2014, 16:06

Kismet wrote:
Purple Pigeon wrote:His spelling must have been OK by Air Commodore, or he'd never have been allowed to be the wireless operator.

And the notes he writes in 'and the Noble Lord' are fine.

Either the note in the Black Peril is an aberration, or Biggles arranged a tutor.

I think we can assume his writing was poor when he met up with Biggles and Algy in The Black Peril. However, he would have learnt very quickly after that. He would be trying to get the most from the money that he (or Biggles) was given for his education; he would want to impress Biggles and Algy, too. Possibly Biggles did arrange a tutor to get him up to speed with his spelling. We know Ginger is intelligent. I think he had devoured everything about flying - i.e. technical writing. He seems not to have been interested in anything else up to that time, but doors open up for him at an astonishing rate once he meets Biggles and Algy.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby SaintedAunt » 05 Jan 2014, 16:06

Purple Pigeon wrote:I've checked my copy of By Jove Biggles and it seems he was posted there in December 1924. It looks like he was there less than a year though.

Long enough to find out which county Newcastle was in :lol:
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 08 Jan 2014, 19:33

I found this on the frontispiece for "Biggles in Spain" - it states that Ginger is from Smettleworth, Yorkshire.

So, how did Ginger get to outside of Newcastle, which is in completely the wrong direction? Is this the beginning of the "Ginger gets lost" theme?
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Tommy Smith » 08 Jan 2014, 19:47

Cruel, but true!

So, looks like he learnt to ride on pit ponies in Yorkshire :D
(I was looking photos of Yorkshire coal mines in the 30's).
He must have had the aptitude to learn, but a total lack of opportunity given his situation.

I'm not surprised the end of Black Peril was changed from the magazine version, which made doing a runner sound like an attractive option.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 09 Jan 2014, 10:41

Yes I could not have liked Ginger if the book ended the same way as the magazine story - he was much, much too cocky. I think WEJ must have realised he needed to calm him down. He hardly does anything in the next book Hits the Trail. Talking of Black Peril I do wonder if his spelling went to pot because he was writing in a hurry in the dark with a pencil and knowing he was going to do something very exciting, dangerous and completely against Biggles' orders - for the first but not the last time :D
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 09 Jan 2014, 22:12

Jenny Rob wrote:Yes I could not have liked Ginger if the book ended the same way as the magazine story - he was much, much too cocky. I think WEJ must have realised he needed to calm him down. He hardly does anything in the next book Hits the Trail. Talking of Black Peril I do wonder if his spelling went to pot because he was writing in a hurry in the dark with a pencil and knowing he was going to do something very exciting, dangerous and completely against Biggles' orders - for the first but not the last time :D


I think that must be it - it was dark, he was hyped up on adrenaline, he hadn't eaten in some time, etc.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 10:44

Talking about Ginger coming from Yorkshire it was mentioned in that front piece in Spain and again in Sees Too Much but are there any other references to Yorkshire in the books? I seem to think there is one other occasion when Ginger says he comes from Yorkshire but I do not have a clue which book it is in.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Kismet » 10 Jan 2014, 13:19

Jenny Rob wrote:Talking about Ginger coming from Yorkshire it was mentioned in that front piece in Spain and again in Sees Too Much but are there any other references to Yorkshire in the books? I seem to think there is one other occasion when Ginger says he comes from Yorkshire but I do not have a clue which book it is in.


It was mentioned in the text of 'in Spain' - when Ginger ends up in the trenches 'I'm Ginger Hebblethwaite from Yorkshire' he said
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 13:22

Yes that could well be what I am thinking of. Its funny how WEJ picked up on things from the early days much later in the series. Even with Marie in Looks Back there had been no mention of her between WWI and Looks Back all those years later. I do not think there is even any hint as to why Biggles is not interested in women in any of the books. Also when you think about it Algy obviously had a way with girls in Flies Again but he hardly speaks to a woman after that.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby SaintedAunt » 10 Jan 2014, 13:33

Jenny Rob wrote: I do not think there is even any hint as to why Biggles is not interested in women in any of the books. Also when you think about it Algy obviously had a way with girls in Flies Again but he hardly speaks to a woman after that.

Of course not - they were written for young boys (who didn't want that sort of thing) - although girls read them too (who might have) :lol: The surprising thing is that WEJ ever wrote Looks Back although, given the feeble ending, he might as well not have bothered.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 13:36

Yes I do agree about the ending to Looks Back. As far as girls are concerned were the earlier books just for adults rather than teenage boys? The very late books are for ages 9 - 12 which is why the team seem so dumbed down with very short sentences and everything either spelt out very, very clearly or repeated about five times.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Kismet » 10 Jan 2014, 13:55

I think I read somewhere that WEJ wanted to have more women in the books but his publishers wouldn't let him. I can't remember if sales actually went down and complaints up, or if the publishers just said this would happen. I love the way that he is mostly obedient to these dictats and then just slides the odd sentence or reference in.

I would really like to read Biggles books written exactly as WEJ wanted to write them.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 14:01

Kismet wrote:
I would really like to read Biggles books written exactly as WEJ wanted to write them.



I was thinking this about "Hits the Trail" - I rather think that there might be some dialogue that was cut out. Biggles is shooting at the light and he thinks he's hit it and Ginger says "not out" and Biggles snarls back at him "I'll clip your ear for you, you impudent brat". This never made sense to me. Why would Biggles say that at Ginger's simple "not out"? Perhaps there was more of a smart-mouth pop-off that got trimmed down in the editing process.

Apart from the occasional sarcastic comment, Ginger is rather more restrained in his comments than the average teenage boy might be.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 14:14

I think it is a cricketing term when a bowler thinks he has got a batsman out he says "How's that?" and if the umpire thinks it is not out he says "not out" - which would sound like "lip" to Biggles. I think Biggles was also embarrassed because everyone was watching him and he could not hit the light.

It would have been very interesting to read the books as WEJ would have liked to write them and I should think there would have been more girls and women about.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 14:16

Jenny Rob wrote:I think it is a cricketing term when a bowler thinks he has got a batsman out he says "How's that?" and if the umpire thinks it is not out he says "not out" - which would sound like "lip" to Biggles. I think Biggles was also embarrassed because everyone was watching him and he could not hit the light.


Oh, I had no idea it was a cricketing reference. That would help to explain it.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 14:24

Going back to our talk about Yorkshire and mining.

In "Dark Intruder", they're discussing the pit shaft and Biggles asks Ginger if he'd go down the mine. Ginger says "I shouldn't mind if you were up top".

I always wondered if Ginger had some experience being down the mine, or if he'd left before that. Was there a legal working age for miners in 1935?
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Inactive User 149 » 10 Jan 2014, 14:29

No there was no legal age I think boys did go down the mines although I am not sure exactly what they did. I love the idea that he would go down if he knew Biggles was up top to rescue him if he did not come back.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby SaintedAunt » 10 Jan 2014, 15:59

kylie_koyote wrote:
Jenny Rob wrote:I think it is a cricketing term when a bowler thinks he has got a batsman out he says "How's that?" and if the umpire thinks it is not out he says "not out" - which would sound like "lip" to Biggles. I think Biggles was also embarrassed because everyone was watching him and he could not hit the light.


Oh, I had no idea it was a cricketing reference. That would help to explain it.

It is indeed a cricketing term and I always thought it was a very witty piece of writing by WEJ (in tune with the lighthearted craziness of Hits the Trail) because there was the literal meaning which was true and the cricket allusion which was appropriate!

But I don't think Biggles was embarrassed because he couldn't hit the light. He did hit it. I think he may have been annoyed that it took him more than one shot, but more than annoyed when it came on again - so he was not in the mood to find Ginger's funny remark anyhing other than irritating :)
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 16:21

It all makes sense now. 25 years that bit's been bothering me. Thank you!
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Fairblue » 10 Jan 2014, 17:55

SaintedAunt wrote:[It is indeed a cricketing term and I always thought it was a very witty piece of writing by WEJ (in tune with the lighthearted craziness of Hits the Trail) because there was the literal meaning which was true and the cricket allusion which was appropriate!

But I don't think Biggles was embarrassed because he couldn't hit the light. He did hit it. I think he may have been annoyed that it took him more than one shot, but more than annoyed when it came on again - so he was not in the mood to find Ginger's funny remark anyhing other than irritating :)

That's how I read that bit as too, SA. Ginger being a smart-alec at the wrong moment. :lol:
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jan 2014, 20:06

Fairblue wrote:
SaintedAunt wrote:[It is indeed a cricketing term and I always thought it was a very witty piece of writing by WEJ (in tune with the lighthearted craziness of Hits the Trail) because there was the literal meaning which was true and the cricket allusion which was appropriate!

But I don't think Biggles was embarrassed because he couldn't hit the light. He did hit it. I think he may have been annoyed that it took him more than one shot, but more than annoyed when it came on again - so he was not in the mood to find Ginger's funny remark anyhing other than irritating :)

That's how I read that bit as too, SA. Ginger being a smart-alec at the wrong moment. :lol:


Was there ever a right moment? He certainly gets told off a lot. But I love those parts so I'm not complaining.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 12 Jan 2014, 20:39

To go back to our original topic of Ginger's reading ... Doesn't he also quote Kipling at some point, or am I misremembering?
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Fairblue » 12 Jan 2014, 21:11

kylie_koyote wrote:To go back to our original topic of Ginger's reading ... Doesn't he also quote Kipling at some point, or am I misremembering?

Not sure, kk. If he did, it passed me by. Or maybe he misquoted? ;)
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jun 2015, 18:28

:backtotopic:

Ginger reads science fiction - illustrated too. From "Cuts it Fine":

Major Charles had been right—and how right! Before him, in what was now plainly an embrasure, was a gun. It was no ordinary gun. It was a weird, futuristic-looking weapon, the like of which he had only seen in scientific fiction books.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby kylie_koyote » 10 Jun 2015, 18:37

Also, I found the bit about Kipling that I was trying to remember earlier. It is in "Special Air Police", in the short story "The Case of the Mandarin's Treasure Chest":

“Out in happy Mandalay,
Where the flying fishes play
And the dawn comes up like thunder,
Out of China across the way.”

Ginger tried to remember Kipling’s famous lines as, looking ahead from the Air-Police long-range Wellington, he watched the dawn break over China.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby HostileCacti » 11 Jun 2015, 15:03

Kismet wrote:I've never had a student who spelt incorrectly but used apostrophes and grammar correctly. I'm not able to take this note seriously because of these internal inconsistencies.



I have wondered about him spelling the word "without" correctly, but misspell the others. I find without difficult to spell, and would in similar circumstances most likely get it wrong. Is that just me :roll: or something that WEJ overlooked??
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby Kismet » 11 Jun 2015, 15:35

I think that's just you, Hostile Cacti. Everyone has a few straightforward words that they have to check on because they have a blind spot about them. I spent an entire year once unable to spell 'enrolment', a word I had to write several times a day. I got so fed up of checking it in the dictionary that I wrote it on a sticker and stuck it to my computer.
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Re: Ginger's reading

Postby HostileCacti » 11 Jun 2015, 19:16

Haha, so it's just me and not just me then :agiggle:
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