Ginger's father

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Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 14 Sep 2015, 10:46

We know that Ginger's father gave him a clip round the ear when he said he was going to be a pilot so he "hopped it" as he put it but I wonder what their relationship was like when he was younger? I cannot imagine a miner in the 1930s being an affectionate father but he might have been a hard working man who looked after his family.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby kylie_koyote » 14 Sep 2015, 11:23

Ginger was a sweet boy who was kind to animals and cheerful with everyone he came into contact with - unless, of course, they were baddies. I haven't got a copy of Black Peril handy at the moment, but I think WEJ calls it his "strange but inoffensive air of familiarity", so I don't think his father could've been too harsh, but he probably wasn't all cuddles and sunshine either - judging by the fact that he writes that rather unpleasant letter to Ginger and then is never heard from again.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby tiffinata » 14 Sep 2015, 11:40

Don't they do things differently in Yorkshire? I'm thinking of a certain comedy youtube clip about yYorkshire airlines.

Short and blunt to the point is the way I see them as a non-British person.
What idiosyncrasies would a 'typical' Yorkshireite have that could relate to the unknown character of Ginger's Old Man?
(Do I recall a post somewhere about Yorkshire language? )
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 14 Sep 2015, 11:50

Yes you are quite right Tiff. I think his father's reaction to the news that he was learning to fly "If you break your neck it will be your own fault" would be quite typical of a Yorkshire man.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Isaac Reed » 14 Sep 2015, 11:51

I have an idea of them as tough, grumpy, old nearly subsistence farmers with a dialect and accent so unique that it may as well be it's own language. In my own experience of one day in Yorkshire (so much, right) they seemed friendly enough but certainly not outgoing.

As for how Ginger's father would be, I haven't read the Black Peril yet.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby kylie_koyote » 14 Sep 2015, 12:11

He doesn't actually have any lines Isaac. We just hear about him from Ginger, who says "my father's a miner. He fetched me a clip on the ear when I told him I was going to become a pilot, so I hopped it."

And later on Biggles is concerned about being responsible for Ginger and asks him what his father has to say about Ginger learning to fly.

Ginger pulls a dirty envelope from his pocket and says his father told him that if he broke his blinking neck it'd be his own fault.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Isaac Reed » 14 Sep 2015, 12:21

From that, Ginger's father certainly care about him. Just not in a very warm and family like way. Black Peril and Cruise of the Condor are my next two reads.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Kismet » 14 Sep 2015, 12:43

Ginger, in the midst of all the excitement that was Black Peril, thought enough of his father to write to him and his father wrote straight back. That suggests to me a strong affection.

Saying things like 'if you break your blinking neck it'll be your own fault' was not meant as harshly as sounds. There was a general view amongst my grandmother's generation in Northern villages, that praising a child wasn't good for it. If I'd just been told 'if you break your blinking neck it'll be your own fault,' I'd have been dancing for joy, absolutely over the moon because I'd have been granted parental permission to do whatever it was that I was wanting. My father would be expressing some doubt as to the wisdom of my choice, but he wouldn't be opposing it.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 14 Sep 2015, 16:13

In Biggles Goes Home Algy says "well its your funeral" or words to that effect when Ginger is keen to jump out of the plane into a burning gulley - I suppose that is a comment on similar lines.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Tracer » 14 Sep 2015, 19:31

Kismet wrote:Ginger, in the midst of all the excitement that was Black Peril, thought enough of his father to write to him and his father wrote straight back. That suggests to me a strong affection.

Saying things like 'if you break your blinking neck it'll be your own fault' was not meant as harshly as sounds. There was a general view amongst my grandmother's generation in Northern villages, that praising a child wasn't good for it. If I'd just been told 'if you break your blinking neck it'll be your own fault,' I'd have been dancing for joy, absolutely over the moon because I'd have been granted parental permission to do whatever it was that I was wanting. My father would be expressing some doubt as to the wisdom of my choice, but he wouldn't be opposing it.



Sums it up exactly.

Fathers weren't touchy-feely huggy wuggy in those times in general.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby kylie_koyote » 14 Sep 2015, 19:57

In the original text that was published in the magazine (see Dr Biggles' fantastic site for this text if you haven't read it already), there is a bit more where Ginger says something like "I can't wait to write Dad and tell him the good news" (this being the award of £500 for his education).

This bit of dialogue didn't make it into the book, for whatever reason, but I think it shows that Ginger cares enough about his father to keep in touch.
"For goodness sake stop that Yankee drawl, or you'll have us all doing it before you've finished."
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby The Professor » 14 Sep 2015, 20:05

You poor prune!
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2015, 07:54

I did not know about that KK. It does show Ginger cared what his father thought.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Tracer » 15 Sep 2015, 08:41

Thing is, when brought up that way, (and most children were no matter what their background) some people shut down and others struggle to find something, anything, that will earn a grunt of approval from the parent.

Mine were dead 30-odd years when I realised I was still trying to please them.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2015, 11:05

Yes it takes a long time to get over things like that. Ginger of course always tries to please Biggles but in his own way. In that sense he was quite disobedient. In & Co. he takes Stella's plane and follows Biggles totally against orders. If he thinks he can be of help he just ignores what Biggles has said and goes his own way. He did the same thing in Goes To War and he Biggles was not pleased.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Tracer » 15 Sep 2015, 15:41

But in a way I suspect it's that spirit that the older chaps like about him.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2015, 16:45

Yes quite likely. I sometimes get the impression that Biggles did not quite know how to treat Ginger in the very early books. In Hits the Trail Ginger insists on going with Biggles up the mountain and when they get to the top Biggles says he is glad that he did take him.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby kylie_koyote » 15 Sep 2015, 18:40

Frecks wrote:Yes quite likely. I sometimes get the impression that Biggles did not quite know how to treat Ginger in the very early books. In Hits the Trail Ginger insists on going with Biggles up the mountain and when they get to the top Biggles says he is glad that he did take him.


I would say this is just natural team formation, trying to figure each other out in the early days, with the added challenge of Ginger being a youngster.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 15 Sep 2015, 18:50

Yes I agree KK. Biggles seemed to split the team in two much more after Ginger joined them. It is always best to have someone in reserve to come and rescue you if a mission goes wrong.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Kismet » 31 Mar 2018, 14:44

280228012800

My great grandfather Henry and two of his brothers, John and Joseph, who worked as miners in Lancashire. They were born in the 1870s and are so just about young enough to be Ginger's father. I'd guess at the pictures being taken somewhere around the turn of the century, certainly prior to the start of the first world war.
Hope this helps you visualise what Ginger's father might have looked like, Frecks.
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Re: Ginger's father

Postby Frecks » 31 Mar 2018, 14:56

Yes indeed - they are all fine looking men. I should imagine Ginger's father would have been fairly short and possibly thin and wiry like Ginger. I think the gentleman on the right would have been the closest in looks to Ginger's family. Thanks for posting these Kismet.
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